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Subcategory sorting
[edit]The sorting of subcategories in this category is inconsistent. What should be done with it?
Two sorting types are used in here at present:
- Alphabetically by sport (e.g. Category:IFAF World Championship is sorted under "A" for "American football", instead of under "I" for "IFAF")
- Alphabetically by subcategory base name (e.g. Category:ICC World Twenty20 is sorted under "I" for "ICC" instead of "C" for "Cricket").
Additionally, someone has been adding sortkeys to some subcats (e.g. "+Cue sports" to Category:Cue sports world championships) to create a separate list above the A–Z listing, by sport.
Above all of that are some "*" sorts to put a few overarching entries at the top, e.g. Category:Women's world championships, which seems fine. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 22:52, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
- The "+" seems to have been taken out.
- I would (i) leave the special ones at the top, (ii) use the sport name only if it appears within the category name, and otherwise (iii) use the category name rather than the sport name, but ignoring the word "World". – Fayenatic London 23:33, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
- Be sure, the subcategories by sport should be sorted separately, above the "A-Z listing". They included Category:Skiing world competitions, Category:World championships in sailing, Category:World motorcycle racing series, Category:Gymnastics world championships, Category:Cue sports world championships, Category:Contract bridge world competitions, Category:World auto racing series. I have used "+" as sortkey for such categories. Per WP:SORTKEY: Use other sort keys beginning with a space (or an asterisk or a plus sign) for any "List of ..." and other pages that should appear after the key article and before the main alphabetical listings. The same technique is sometimes used to bring particular subcategories to the start of the list. In other case, child subcategory Category:World championships by sport should be created. Also, create the child subcategory Category:World cup competitions for events listed in {{Main world cups}} with World cup competition as main article for it. 95.133.219.133 (talk) 01:11, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
- But these are not "any 'list of ...' and other pages that should appear after the key article and before the main alphabetical listings"; they're subcategories in an array of subcategories, and numerous other entries in that array are also comparable things (world championships in various sports). That the approach is "sometimes used to bring particular subcategories to the start" of such an array doesn't mean that it should/must be done robotically. No case has actually be made for a need to do so here, and it simply has the effect of singling out a handful of sports for no apparent reason. We don't need a "World cup competitions" category and series of article, because the entire notion is an artificial clumping together of unrelated things by coincidence of similar naming; see WP:SHAREDNAME. Many top competitions in sports do not have "world cup" in their titles, and not everything with "world cup" in the name of it is actually a comparable world championship (several have been failed commercial attempts to create such an event). What we do already have is this Category:World championships which is for top-level competitions in sports, regardless what their name is (e.g. Category:Capcom Cup and Category:ICC World Twenty20, and Category:Kabaddi World Cup are all in there, along with Category:World Chess Championships and various other "world championship"-named stuff. Finally, WP:SMALLCAT militates against the idea of having a bunch of new subcategories under this that don't have much if any potential for growth. We might need a few, e.g. for American/gridiron football, but not for every sport for which we happen to have an article or two.
PS:
{{Main world cups}}would probably not survive WP:TFD because it's an artificial categorization. World cup competition needs to merge with World championship since it's a duplicate topic.
— SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 03:46, 14 October 2017 (UTC)- 1) "these are not any list?" Read the cited WP:SORTKEY again. The same technique is sometimes used to bring particular subcategories to the start of the list. So, the using of "+" or "*" sortkey for subcategories sorted by sport (to split them from subcategories by competition now) is appropriate solution. 2) it's a not duplicative topics. In many sports, World Cup (with many stages in a season), and world championship (usually a single event) are different. 95.133.219.133 (talk) 10:20, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
- Completely counterfactual. The terms are synonymous. Many sports have world championships that consist of many stages in a season, they just don't all put "cup" in the name. The cup is the trophy, nothing more. Not all trophies are in the shape of a cup. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 18:10, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
- You are wrong. FIS Alpine Ski World Cup is absolutely different competition which is season-long world cup, but not the world championships, compare to FIS Alpine World Ski Championships. So, the real world championships (including WCh styled as "World Cups") should be categorized as the Category:World championships, but season-long world tours and series (not equal to WCh in this sport) should be categorized as Category:World cups. 95.133.219.133 (talk) 18:41, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
- I'm not wrong. The fact that some sports have both a world cup and another world-level tournament (often called a world championship) doesn't mean anything. They're still the same sort of thing. Some sports even have multiple events called world championships (put on by different organizations). The fact remains that the overall nature of the events cannot be distiguished by the name, and varies not only from sport to sport by from event to event within many sports. There is no one-to-one relationship between all world cups, or between all world championships. They are all in the same class, however: world-level professional tournaments for top-ranking players/teams. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 03:22, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
- 1) "these are not any list?" Read the cited WP:SORTKEY again. The same technique is sometimes used to bring particular subcategories to the start of the list. So, the using of "+" or "*" sortkey for subcategories sorted by sport (to split them from subcategories by competition now) is appropriate solution. 2) it's a not duplicative topics. In many sports, World Cup (with many stages in a season), and world championship (usually a single event) are different. 95.133.219.133 (talk) 10:20, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
- But these are not "any 'list of ...' and other pages that should appear after the key article and before the main alphabetical listings"; they're subcategories in an array of subcategories, and numerous other entries in that array are also comparable things (world championships in various sports). That the approach is "sometimes used to bring particular subcategories to the start" of such an array doesn't mean that it should/must be done robotically. No case has actually be made for a need to do so here, and it simply has the effect of singling out a handful of sports for no apparent reason. We don't need a "World cup competitions" category and series of article, because the entire notion is an artificial clumping together of unrelated things by coincidence of similar naming; see WP:SHAREDNAME. Many top competitions in sports do not have "world cup" in their titles, and not everything with "world cup" in the name of it is actually a comparable world championship (several have been failed commercial attempts to create such an event). What we do already have is this Category:World championships which is for top-level competitions in sports, regardless what their name is (e.g. Category:Capcom Cup and Category:ICC World Twenty20, and Category:Kabaddi World Cup are all in there, along with Category:World Chess Championships and various other "world championship"-named stuff. Finally, WP:SMALLCAT militates against the idea of having a bunch of new subcategories under this that don't have much if any potential for growth. We might need a few, e.g. for American/gridiron football, but not for every sport for which we happen to have an article or two.