Cryptozoology was a Natural sciences good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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We get it, cryptozoology is a pseudoscience. The article essentially has point after point repeating the same thing for 80% of it's length. I think compressing the article's reception and/or terminology and approach section should be done, it's a very bloated article. KanyeWestDropout (talk) 08:54, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It probably appears bloated and repetitive because so many of our WP:FRIND sources frame the topic as a pseudoscience when discussing various aspects of it. I think such framing, especially when it helps clarify context, is quite useful. - LuckyLouie (talk) 15:28, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think they discuss various aspects Most say essentially the same thing (Cryptozoology is a pseudoscience) without anything really unique to add. Hill's and Card's sections have relevant and unique info. Prothero, Ward and Regal's section's don't add much besides repeating the "cryptozoology is a pseudoscience" line which is supported by 8+ citations KanyeWestDropout (talk) 19:43, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The attributed statements are each quite different, and they help illustrate the overwhelming consensus among relevant experts that cryptozoology is a pseudoscience — something that a number of fringe-friendly editors have demanded text and citations for in the past. - LuckyLouie (talk) 21:05, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We have citations, it seems like the bulking of the article was just done out of spite to those fringe-friendly editors and not because the article needs it KanyeWestDropout (talk) 01:02, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But do we really need all those quotes when we have something like 10 cites for "There is a broad consensus among academics that cryptozoology is a pseudoscience"? Slatersteven (talk) 10:46, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If anything, we need more discussion of this topic, not less. Almost everything about the history of this subculture—from its foundation to its continued existence in internet corners—centers around its opposition to mainstream science and mainstream academia. Here we discuss why and how it came into existence, and its continued fixation on presenting iself as a science to the general public. This is exactly what our reliable sources focus on and exactly what we cover here. :bloodofox: (talk) 17:57, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I feel like the majority of the first section is dedicated to criticism of the subject. Wouldn't that fit better under the criticism and pseudoscience section of the page? Especially the creationist/media organization ties KanyeWestDropout (talk) 13:03, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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I would like to update the opening sentence in 1st paragraph: "Cryptozoology is the generally pseudoscience-following study" with "Cryptozoology is the controversial study" Nbk8zpe (talk) 13:44, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the feedback. If I consider Popper's Falsification Principle as a way of demarcating science from non-science, then I can take a theory such as 'there exists a Loch Ness Monster' and call it scientific, if it can be be tested and conceivably proven false. With a depth of 788 feet (240 metres) and a length of about 23 miles (36 km), Loch Ness has the largest volume of fresh water in Great Britain, so it is an ongoing scientific search. So far this creature's existence not been proven to universal acceptance, however, this does not render cryptozoology false and thus pseudoscientific. Given numerous sightings from people over many years, the existence is what I would deem controversial, as those who claim to have seen the creature assert this as epistemologically true. If 'Nessy' were to be verifiably proven to exist and accepted by many people then cryptozoology is true. My point is that the choice of language here is not precise and seeks to denigrate an alternative viewpoint. Nbk8zpe (talk) 17:08, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'd settle for fringe instead of controversial. I believe have a made a reasoned suggestion in good faith for my view to be considered, however I'm not sure this is being given any logical consideration for replacement of 'pseudoscience' with 'controversial' or even 'fringe'. I'm applying philosophy of science perspective here and science does not have uniform agreement on a theory to give it treatment as an alternative position. Nbk8zpe (talk) 21:42, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I understand where you're coming from; however calling all of cryptozoology pseudoscience could be misleading. While I agree that the vast majority of it is, it isn't all folklorists. Snake Enthusiast (talk) 18:10, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes... but that's not what I'm saying. Not every so-called 'cryptozoologist' is making up stories about random animals they saw in the woods that are probably black bears. Some are scientists; and a handful of organisms have been discovered by investigating a 'cryptid' (which I'm sure you know as you seem to haunt this page so often); without which these organisms would likely have remained hidden for years more. Snake Enthusiast (talk) 18:25, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And when they are they cease to be cryptids, the point here is this is about the "random animals they saw in the woods that are probably black bears". Not actual biology. Slatersteven (talk) 18:29, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But then you get into the whole mess of what a cryptid is and more warring. I'll leave the page as it is, but I still think that it is heavily biased towards skepticism and needs reworking in future. Snake Enthusiast (talk) 18:31, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
' a pseudoscientic extension of older belief in monsters and other similar entities from the folkloric record, yet with a "new, more scientific-sounding name: cryptids". '
Dendle (2006) seems to have been quote mined. In the same "Folklore" article quoted, he also says "The point of this paper is not to disparage the important work of cryptozoologists nor to imply that there is no legitimate place for cryptozoology within contemporary zoology. The International Society of Cryptozo from 1982 to 1998), for instance, published sound research and reflection in its newsletter and in a refereed journal." For balance should we not include this as well? The implication in wiki article that he thinks it is all pseudoscience that clearly is not his position. 193.130.15.245 (talk) 11:12, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Quote mining indeed. Folklorist Dendle goes on to say: ...There are, of course, new species that remain to be discovered, and early reports of them will naturally appear folkloric before a specimen is secured and the scientific community can verify it. My intention is rather to unpack certain facets of the social significance of the widespread interest and even belief in such creatures before they are confirmed by science. In keeping with his intention, Dendle is used in our article for his observations re the social significance and belief regarding cryptozoology, not to argue whether it, or anything else, is a pseudoscience. - LuckyLouie (talk) 12:59, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]