User talk:20footfish

Hi 20footfish! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from experienced editors like Worm That Turned (talk). Visit the Teahouse We hope to see you there! Delivered by HostBot on behalf of the Teahouse hosts 16:04, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Hello, I'm Neverbuffed. I noticed that you recently removed content from Park Yoo-chun without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Neverbuffed (talk) 00:02, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We have resolved this on Neverbuffed talk pages.20footfish (talk) 00:39, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Park Yoo-chun. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively, you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continued disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. Do not remove the COI template again. Thank you. bonadea contributions talk 17:09, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ok so this is where we can talk

Okay so how do I get that COI removed because it says on wikipedia that I can remove it if I change something. What should I change? I see you changed my last edits, what else do you need me to change,I will do it. I am trying to do this with you If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively, you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.20footfish (talk) 17:17, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I will be looking at the dispute process about this one because the information you will revert back to is destructive. I don't see how what I did was destructive. I will want an explanation on that and yes, I have read the policy. I have referred to all you have sent me but I don't understand how my edits fit into destructive. Thank you for taking time for the chat but I will look at what we can do about a dispute process Information icon Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Park Yoo-chun. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted.

I have completed the report as per the policy and filed for dispute resolution. I would like help and you will see why. It's a content issue yes and not personal. I want the banner off for my safety now. I need to speak to someone for help with that. All edits, just undo them but take that banner off because the people I got copyright from can see it right away and they have my email in their inbox asking for copyright permissions. I need you to understand that and help me resolve this.

Hello, 20footfish. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about in the page Park Yoo-chun, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:

• avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization or competitors;
• propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the {{request edit}} template);
• disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest#How to disclose a COI);
• avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see WP:Spam);
• do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. bonadea contributions talk 12:26, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bonadea hello. Can you please explain which one of these things listed is the cause of your suspected COI? would you explain editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. ..... I don't think I have done that. I have edited according to the WP:Prod policy and living person category and uploaded one photgraph into commons. I will be needing your explanation to understand, please.20footfish (talk) 15:38, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You said (and I quote) I often help this group and fans with English translations etc. That's how I got asked to update his page – "his page" signals a misconception, a Wikipedia article does not belong to the subject of the article and the subject or his fans do not control the content. You stated explicitly here that your edits were "recommended by fansite", and the article talk page contains a lot of communication from you to the person's fans, including sections where you express regret(!) that Wikipedia needs to be impartial. As you also claimed to have a copy of his driving licence it is obvious that you have had some kind of contact with the person himself. Again, this is not a matter of suspicion, but of what you yourself have stated. --bonadea contributions talk 16:28, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So suspition is that it? I really wanted your help to find a solution. I have obviously made a mistake because I don't understand all the policies. I would like to have a meeting, how do I request one because you need to see that I made a mistake.. I had been finding it so hard to get the info for wiki commons that I did reach out on twitter. I got a copy of the license from a fan site.. I mean its not my fault that it was there. I didn't speak to him. Can you help me remove your banner and I will leave your changes. what would like to do? You haven't told me what to do.20footfish (talk) 16:34, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I also stand by my comments on impartiality because Wikipedia's Birthday had a huge article on what that means. I have been impartial in my editing. I also want to apologize for being a little upset, actually a lot as I have done 80 hours of research to make sure that I am correct before I change anything. I just wanted to change his name and add a photo. I just wanted help. I would still like to understand please what this means going forward.. It's pretty frightening to get that banner and I want to be part of your team and get it right. I have done the wrong thing to get that image license...How do you do it? yes, I helped them when they helped me. I was busy from 6 Jan to today finding sources that are still not okay for that photo. How would like me to prove myself as a valuable editor... can you help me work this out.

(edit conflict) There are instructions above for how you resolve this: use the article talk page to request edits to the article, and avoid editing it directly. As I said on the article talk page, multiple different accounts – not just you – have edited with a clear COI. You have not added the same kind of promotional content that some other editors have done – but on the other hand, you have not done anything to remove that stuff, instead removing well-sourced content that was not exactly flattering to the individual. Don't worry about it, though – Wikipedia is a collaborative process, and there are other eyes on the article now. I'm not sure what you mean by "meeting"? We are communicating in a couple of different places here, so it doesn't look like the lines of communication are down – this is the only kind of "meeting" that is possible on Wikipedia, although if you get into an editing dispute, there is a dispute resolution process. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 16:50, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

- gosh but you said in your first talk to me that I was COI.. in tearoom you did say that it was me and this terrible because I am the last editor so of course, I am singled out here-20footfish (talk) 18:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

okay so do you mean I need to just stop, or do you mean undo all my edits, delete my talk pages, and request changes? Some requests have not been done since 2016. Can I work with those that are watching the page? Can I keep that Banner off the top? I won't do anything else. Yes, I did remove unflattering stuff but the detail was different in 3 -6 articles and you can't be bias withy loading the one you like as a citation, therefore removed. I don't want my name now to be a COI on the top of his page. That is humiliating for me so I need to do what I can to not be that. I guess that meeting is the dispute process you talk about. I am gonna have issues with commons also now, it's so hard.20footfish (talk) 16:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The COI template does not have your name on it, and again it is not only about your edits. I am very sorry that you are looking at it as a source of humiliation; you are definitely not being asked to revert every edit you have done, or anything like that. The template is about the article, not about you! Maybe take a couple of days off away from the article, if it causes you distress? This is supposed to be a hobby, something you do because you enjoy it, after all... Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 17:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bonadea I am not trying to be sensitive, I ask please kindly read my reasons in bLP section and we can compromise but can you see why I removed it at least. You need to reword it and read that article 37 it's not the same words.. it's been on there and wasn't impartial, it misleads people. Other article say he announced, but some say Cjes announced without him, so how can we choose one good source above another. The minute we do that, we are no longer impartial. Isn't it just better to not put it on at all? I won't take time away until COI is gone because it's not true and I have been accused of that now 20footfish (talk) 17:58, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Biographies of living persons ("BLPs") must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives; the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment.

removal of information has been done. on

On April 26, 2019, Park was arrested on suspicion of purchasing and using methamphetamine.(((( There is no citation here, I thought if not cited, it could be removed and another editor can come in and put it back with citation, so I removed this sentence))) - no need of COI accusation, just a simple discussion and citation was needed.

He was also suspected of attempting to destroy evidence by dyeing and shaving the hair from his body before undergoing the drug test. (((Not cited)))

Park's agency, C-JeS Entertainment, announced that his contract would be terminated and he would retire from the entertainment industry.[37] (((This one is strange because it doesnt say that in article 37.. It says His management agency, C-JeS, expelled him from the agency and terminated his contract Wednesday after the drug test results were announced.

how can you not see that this edit is not impartial, the words were changed to sound like he announced his retirement. This article says Cjes expelled him, terminated and announced that he would retire...this is why I removed it. It was not correct. I removed leaving the onus on the next editor to correctly put in the information.

Park admitted the drugs charges against him.[38][39] On July 2, 2019, Park was sentenced to two years' probation, with ten months in prison if he violated probation, and a fine of 1.4 million won.[40] - these 2 were true so I left them alone

I can do this for every single edit I made.. plse remove banner and work with me. Not against me please.20footfish (talk) 17:53, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

First, I closed your DRN case because you were asking for the wrong things from the wrong people. But the way you worded it made me concerned. So my first piece of advise is if you are being bullied and or contacted in real life because of edits you are doing here, you may want to walk away. WP is not worth risking your safety over. Next- A conflict of interest is not the end of the world, nor is it the end of your editing career on WP. If you look at my User page- you will see I publically announce that I have a COI- I work for United Healthcare. The way I get around that- is I simply do not edit any healthcare related articles. So, if you have a personal connection with Park Yoo Chun, then you can still suggest edits on the talk page, but you shouldn't edit the page directly. A personal connection could be anything that might make you biased- so even being a big fan can be a COI. THats okay. I'm a big fan of Gilmore Girls, Love that show.... so I'm probably not the best person to edit the criticism section. So I don't. I find other ways to contribute.

If you truly do not have a COI- then you do have a pretty significant lack of understanding of WP policies. But don't worry- that too can be remedied! By going to the teahouse, finding a mentor (Not me- I'm not good at mentoring!) and by reading policies and essays. One thing that will probably not happen- is a meeting between you and the admins. Many of them do interact with users on a regular basis- but rarely will they arrange a meeting to explain the rules to someone. They are far too busy. So, check out the teahouse, find a mentor, and you'll get this figured out. But.... I would find other pages to edit that you maybe arn't so emotionally attached to.

Best of luck~~ Nightenbelle (talk) 18:44, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you I am emotional because this is so scarey... I am so upset by the COI. maybe to you it's normal but it's very worrying. I didn't want that and perhaps then I didn't understand properly. I truly do not have a COI. The best I can do is take your advice but how can I have that COI removed. Can't you put it under review without the COI and use a different reason. I should not have used my own email to ask for photos online with random strangers.. yes. I did get one email already and its bad... I will walk away but I wish it wasn't looking directly at me being accused of having a conflict of interest. 203.114.152.22 (talk) 19:17, 29 January 2021 (UTC) sorry my PC does play up and it logged me out a few times.. I know it has caused a problem here too. I won't be an editor in future. I realised that I will be emotionally invested in every article that I put 80 hours into. That may indeed be my conflict of interest. SO now how to admit that and leave it where people can see so thy=ey don't thing its another reason listed on your COI notice?203.114.152.22 (talk) 19:17, 29 January 2021 (UTC) ok it logged me out again.. try again20footfish (talk) 19:18, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If you are going to be this emotional about the articles you edit. WP is not going to be for you. You need to calm down and get some perspective. This is a harsh place. People are going to argue with you, tell you you are bad/wrong/whatever. And seriously- we don't need to change how we handle a COI- you need to change how you respond to it. WP has proceedures in place for a reason, this is how its done. Its not a slam on you personally, its a fact- that article has issues with COI. End of discussion. Either accept it, change your perspective and continue growing into a good editor, or walk away from WP and accept that maybe its not a good place for you right now. I'm not trying to be mean, I'd love to see an enthusiastic editor learn to be a great editor, but emotionally- I'm concerned you are not in a solid enough place to handle the criticism that comes from investing in an article. If you have any of your personal information here on WP- that can be removed. A COI cannot. Anything you sent from your personal email about WP, we cannot handle. Just don't do that again. Nightenbelle (talk) 20:49, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gosh Thank you. I got that its a harsh place already. I had been really enjoying learning and the conversations I had before in WP with users however brief. I am pretty calm, just didn't expect the harshness. I agree that it's not for me. I am trying to resolve before I walk away. I can see that I won't but I am grateful for comments on the talk page that say that it is more than one user. I am a big girl, I didn't lie and run away from my responsibility and my mistake. I now know that it can't be changed and that the COI was going onto the page regardless of whether I update Wikipedia or not. I have tried to apologise to Admins but there are too many places open for this conversation which leads to missing pieces of the puzzle. I will leave it here and again, I enjoyed being a part of the team for a while. This was just not something I was prepared for and my lack of experience led to my emotions so to speak. I wanted to do well with you all. I have a lot of time to give Wikipedia and I could have really grown, but you are right, it's not for me. Thank you.20footfish (talk) 20:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry that is what you decided. I hope you try again at a future date. There isn't really a place for you to apologize.... because you did nothing that needed apologizing for- it just... .is what it is. I wish you well in the future, and I hope you do come back someday. Nightenbelle (talk) 21:39, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please can't you put in history or talk pages that it's for multiple different users and not just one... it will take the heat off?20footfish (talk) 18:58, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No. It already doesn't say its for you specifically. That is as much as needs to be said. Nightenbelle (talk) 20:45, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible to action this and close my account for good, remove my talk stuff. I think our COI conversation is resolved? is that okay? Thank you if you can do this.20footfish (talk) 21:19, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi 20footfish! The thread you created at the Wikipedia:Teahouse, COI question, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days (usually at least two days, and sometimes four or more). You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please feel free to create a new thread. The archival was done by Lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} here on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:02, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]