User talk:Lee Vilenski/Archives/2018/August

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Lee Vilenski. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

The draft was declined in Special:Diff/817167007/823142817 on January 30, using {{AFC submission|d|ilc}} with the standard comment "Please add inline citations for this article. We need to make sure the facts about living people are accurate." Nikolay Antipov died July 29, 1938. Sam Sailor 17:28, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Sam Sailor - Wow. My mistake. Not really sure how I misunderstood that. I'd argue we would still want some inline citations, but I'm aware it isn't manditory. Not sure regarding WP:GNG, as the sources are Russian, and I'm not sure how reliable they are. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:40, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

No biggie. (If it's of consolation, I can say I see old hands (including some admins) who will tag bios of dead people and blps containing, say, an IMDb link in § /External lins/ with {{Prod blp}}, despite the placement criteria in WP:BLPPROD being quite clear.)

Inline citations are always nice, but WP:MINREF are limited to four scenarios, and WP:AFCSTANDARDS repeats them when it says: 1. Avoid declining an article because it correctly uses general references to support some or all of the material. The content and sourcing policies require inline citations for only four specific types of material, most commonly direct quotations and contentious material (whether negative, positive, or neutral) about living persons.

Notability should not be a problem in this case: in fact Antipov is the last redlinked Deputy Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars. The article is a machine translation of ru:Антипов, Николай Кириллович, so a rewrite of the draft before publishing is essential. I don't have a lot of historical knowledge about the era or about USSR, and I don't speak Russian, and in such cases time is better spend by passing the task onto editors who are better qualified, and I have posted at WT:USSR (permalink) and WT:RUSSIA (permalink). Sam Sailor 04:38, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

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Any chance I could get you convert to using this cite format: {{cite web |first=Foo |last=Bar |title=Yadda Yadda |work=Doodle Doodle Dee |url= https://blah.org/yak/yak/ |date=MM DD, YYYY or DD MM YYYY |access-date=MM DD, YYYY or DD MM YYYY}}? They're much easier to read and edit when the entire parameter code and value are grouped (other than a space after |url= helps with line-wrapping issues when a URL is long).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  16:57, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi SMcCandlish, I generally use web cite, for speed. Is there any way to alter the string that is displayed from this service? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:06, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

I have no idea! Guess I should look.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  20:14, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Okay, well that seems to be a website that works a bit like web.archive.org; is there some WebCite-connecting tool you're using to generate citation code?  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  20:17, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

I went through their web-based archival submission, and in the end I got something like this as the citation data: Jarnow, Jesse. The Ghost of John Perry Barlow Lives in His Posthumous Memoir. Wired. 2018-08-01. URL:https://www.wired.com/story/the-ghost-of-john-perry-barlow-lives-in-his-posthumous-memoir/. Accessed: 2018-08-01. (Archived by WebCite® at http://www.webcitation.org/71M3L9tpX) For URL's they provided: http://www.webcitation.org/71M3L9tpX and the long-form version http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wired.com%2Fstory%2Fthe-ghost-of-john-perry-barlow-lives-in-his-posthumous-memoir%2F&date=2018-08-01. But this doesn't seem to have much to do with our citation template spacing. Maybe there's some widget that auto-generate such matter.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  20:27, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

SMcCandlish I've also been using WebRef for these types of citations. I'm not sure if this is even editable in terms of layout. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:42, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Lee, try instaling User:Sam Sailor/Scripts/Tidy citations.js. Four options for citation template spacing are available:

Tidy

Some body text here.<ref name="Jarnow 2018">{{cite web |first=Jesse |last=Jarnow |title=The Ghost of John Perry Barlow Lives in His Posthumous Memoir |website=WIRED |date=5 June 2018 |url=https://www.wired.com/story/the-ghost-of-john-perry-barlow-lives-in-his-posthumous-memoir/ |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20180606011712/https://www.wired.com/story/the-ghost-of-john-perry-barlow-lives-in-his-posthumous-memoir/ |archive-date=6 June 2018 |dead-url=no |access-date=2 August 2018}}</ref>

Crammed

Some body text here.<ref name="Jarnow 2018">{{cite web|first=Jesse|last=Jarnow|title=The Ghost of John Perry Barlow Lives in His Posthumous Memoir|website=WIRED|date=5 June 2018|url=https://www.wired.com/story/the-ghost-of-john-perry-barlow-lives-in-his-posthumous-memoir/|archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20180606011712/https://www.wired.com/story/the-ghost-of-john-perry-barlow-lives-in-his-posthumous-memoir/|archive-date=6 June 2018|dead-url=no|access-date=2 August 2018}}</ref>

Roomy

Some body text here.<ref name="Jarnow 2018">{{cite web | first = Jesse | last = Jarnow | title = The Ghost of John Perry Barlow Lives in His Posthumous Memoir | website = WIRED | date = 5 June 2018 | url = https://www.wired.com/story/the-ghost-of-john-perry-barlow-lives-in-his-posthumous-memoir/ | archive-url = http://web.archive.org/web/20180606011712/https://www.wired.com/story/the-ghost-of-john-perry-barlow-lives-in-his-posthumous-memoir/ | archive-date = 6 June 2018 | dead-url = no | access-date = 2 August 2018}}</ref>

Vertically

Some body text here.<ref name="Jarnow 2018">{{cite web
| first        = Jesse
| last         = Jarnow
| title        = The Ghost of John Perry Barlow Lives in His Posthumous Memoir
| website      = WIRED
| date         = 5 June 2018
| url          = https://www.wired.com/story/the-ghost-of-john-perry-barlow-lives-in-his-posthumous-memoir/
| archive-url  = http://web.archive.org/web/20180606011712/https://www.wired.com/story/the-ghost-of-john-perry-barlow-lives-in-his-posthumous-memoir/
| archive-date = 6 June 2018
| dead-url     = no
| access-date  = 2 August 2018
}}</ref>

For consistent date formats we have User:Ohconfucius/script/MOSNUM dates. It can even do Body+pub dates to either dmy or mdy, and then set |archive-date= and |access-date= to big-endian YYYY-MM-DD, something some editors seem to prefer in SMcCandlish's recent proposal. I must say as he, I regularly set all dates both in the body and in citations to either dmy or mdy, and I have never heard people complaining. Sam Sailor 07:53, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Sam Sailor! I'll take a look at your first tool. I already regularly use the MOSNUM script, it's really good. Personally, I agree that the dates should be consistent. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:12, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

I have added the script, but other than leaving an edit summary, it does not change any citations. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:31, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

@Sam Sailor: Wish I'd known about this earlier! I'm already working on a tweaked version (I don't need the "crammed" or "roomy" variants, and I want it to also do some other stuff: use the hyphenated canonical forms of |access-date=, etc.; insert a space after url= despite otherwise removing spaces (helps with line wrapping); convert |year= to |date= (I think there's some test that needs to be done – there's a rare circumstance in which |year= is actually preferred); detect and warn (in auto-editsummary) about |author=; convert |vauthors= to valid metadata (separate |firstN= |lastN= plus the formatting parameter for Vancouver cites); remove empty |df= and other empty params that aren't likely to be filled |quote=, etc.); detect and warn about ".com" and other common TLDs in |publisher=, almost always a confusion of that parameter with |work=. I haven't actually tried anything yet other than removing the crammed and roomy versions yet. My JS is rusty, and I got other stuff to do today.

PS: Is it using == instad of === for null comparisons for a reason?  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  17:14, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

@SMcCandlish: Glad you liked it. Come to think about it, I normally use either "tidy" or "tidy vertically", I doubt I have used "roomy" much and I doubt I have used "crammed" at all. JS is on my list of things to learn before I die; I did not code any part of this, and I can't answer your question.
@Lee: Script works fine here (ex., ex.), are you running wikEd or something else that takes over the text edit box? Sam Sailor 08:19, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

- Sam Sailor - Certainly not WikiEd. MOSNUM script works perfectly well, but the tidy cite script simply leaves an edit summary, and does no changes to the text. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:54, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

That is the symptom, if wikEd is on. Same thing happens if Syntax highlighting. Could that be the case? Sam Sailor 15:37, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Sam Sailor I've checked my gadgets, and I don't have either. I'm not sure if there is something blocking it from my common java. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:50, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

I don't think syntax highlighter is a gadget we need to turn on (I could be wrong), for me it is available on the highlighter marker button in the advanced menu when in edit mode. Did you check that? Sam Sailor 15:55, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

You have Tidy installed twice, is that the culprit? Sam Sailor 15:57, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Sadly not, I had it only installed once, but I tried bringing it in also via the Script installer, to see if that was the issue. It showed on the left the options twice, but the citations were not tidied. I have removed one instance. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:59, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Sam Sailor - Success. It was the Syntax Highlighter. I didn't even know that was what that button did. Thanks a bunch. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:02, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Good to hear – micro-successes count! Sam Sailor 16:09, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

I use the syntax highlighter (and like it). If using it via Gadget is a bad thing, I'd be amenable to some other way of using it. However, the one turned on by the button is a completely different (and less effective) syntax highlighter than the gadget one. I could live with it I guess. Since you know more about the script interaction effects of it, maybe see if the behavior is different depending on which highlighter is on? I'm not sure what symptoms with which citation-related script you're seeing bad interactions with the highlighter (either of them).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  15:12, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

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It wasn't just dark matches. He faced Tajiri on Sunday Night Heat and Mark Jindrak on Velocity. Mr. C.C.^{Hey yo!}_{I didn't do it!} 04:08, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

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Thanks a lot for the help. It looks like you don't need more documentation but just ask if you have questions. I can also contribute championship data later but now we would just get edit conflicts. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:37, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

No worries, I'll try and as much as I can over the next couple days anyway. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:40, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

- I've done A-R on Summer Sports, will do some more tomorrow. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:47, 22 August 2018 (UTC) - PrimeHunter

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Thanks for creating 2009 WPA World Ten-ball Championship, Lee Vilenski!

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Imgur appears to be down, so have an ImgBB link: [1]. Cheers. Lordtobi (✉) 14:40, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Lordtobi - You sir, are quite the man. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 31 August 2018 (UTC)