Wikipedia:Peer review/Croatia national football team/archive2

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I've listed this article for peer review because of multiple suggestions at WP:FAC. Currently a Good Article, this article has failed FAC 4 times now because of new issues every time. I managed to fix up most of them, but the most vital of such is the prose. I admit myself there are many problems with some of the prose wording, solely because the other editors and myself are second-speakers of English. Additionally, there may be some other minor visible issues which may prevent this from being a Featured Article. I'm mainly looking for prose problems, but if you can find anything else then please don't hesitate to arouse your critical comments.

Thanks, Domiy (talk) 22:52, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Ink Runner (talk · contribs)

(Newest comments on the bottom)

• Prose, grammar, and the like
  • "In 1998, they went on to finish third at the FIFA World Cup, led by Golden Boot winner Davor Šuker." -> "Led by Davor Šuker, they finished third at the 1998 FIFA World Cup."
  • "During their 98 World Cup foray, they defeated the German side 3–0 before concluding the tournament with a 2–1 victory over Holland in the bronze medal playoff." Is the tournament called 98 World Cup, or does 98 refer to the year? If the latter, you should probably write it out: "1998 World Cup". Similar situations throughout the article.
  • Also, what makes the above results (and the rest of those in the paragraph) "noteworthy"? Is there a source to back up the statement? They don't seem particularly noteworthy to me.
  • "Croatia is the only team to win FIFA's "Best Mover of the Year" more than once, receiving the award in 1994 and 1998." -> "Having won FIFA's 'Best Mover of the Year' in 1994 and 1998, Croatia is the only team to win the award more than once."
  • "a 36 match streak at four different venues..." Spell out 36; hyphenate: "a thirty-six-match streak".
  • "In recent years, the Croatian Football Federation has been subject to numerous charges and heavy awareness due to the associated supporters of the national team; often identified as hooligans". First, semi-colons should only be used to separate independent clauses. Second, what do you mean by "subject to heavy awareness"? Do you mean "scrutiny"?
  • "Croatian Radiotelevision (HRT), the principal newscast of the country, covers all the team's performances with live service coverage." -> "Croatian Radiotelevision (HRT), the country's principal news outlet [or whatever], covers all the team's performances live."
  • "At the end of the 19th century, football was introduced in Croatia by English expatriates in Rijeka and Županja, leading to the Croatian recognition of the rulebook in 1896." -> "Football was introduced in [or to] Croatia by English expatriates in Rijeka and Županja in 1873; the [official?] rulebook was first recognized in 1896".
  • In the first paragraph of the "Pre-independence" section, you say that FIFA recorded a "Croatian team playing a full-length fixture against domestic opposition in 1906–07". It's pretty wordy; besides, the source cited just says "The national team played its first match in 1907."
  • "Before independence, Croatian footballers competed in the authorized national teams of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia (1919–39) and the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (1945–90)." Before the independence of what? The Croatian team? Also, "competed in..."? Do you mean they played on the national team of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia or against?
  • "However, at various times throughout these rulings, Croatian sides were temporarily organised and competed separately in unofficial contests, primarily due to the instability of national boundaries involving the war." Erm, I really don't understand this sentence. Could you simplify it? (Replacing "at various times throughout" with "during" is a good start.)
  • Replace "a small number" with "a few".
  • "non-FIFA recognised". I think you mean that the team was not recognized by the FIFA, but your wording seems to emphasize that the team was recognized—just not by the FIFA.
  • "marking their debut match as a distinct side." I don't quite get this sentence.
  • "Following further movement by the Axis power..." What further movement? And if by Axis power, you mean Hungary (I think I have my history right :P), you should just say "Hungary".
  • "The national side played 15 friendly matches until 1944—all but one as an officially sanctioned national team..." Spell out fifteen; and just say "fourteen" if that's how many they played as an officially sanctioned team. ("fourteen as an officially...")
  • "They recorded their first result as a FIFA member on September 8 in Bratislava, drawing 1–1 with Slovakia." -> "Their first recorded result as a FIFA member was a 1-1 tie with Slovakia on September 8 in Bratislava" ...or something like that.
  • "...Yugoslavian federation as the football representative..." -> "Yugoslavian team the football representative..."
  • "From 1950, another unofficial Croatian side was active for a brief period, recording two friendly victories over Indonesia and a Yugoslav team playing as 'Serbia'". From 1950 to when? Also, streamline the sentence: "From 1950 to xxxx, another unofficial Croatian team was briefly active; it won two games against Indonesia and one against a Yugoslav team playing as 'Serbia'."
  • "When Yugoslavia participated at the 1956 Summer Olympics, their squad included numerous Croatian footballers. Subsequent Yugoslavian teams that played in several World Cup and European Championship tournaments up to 1990 also consisted of Croatian players who collectively achieved small success at competitive level." Why is this sentence in here? The article is about the Croatian national soccer team, not Croatian soccer players in general.
  • "The last Yugoslav team to field a considerable Croatian contingent played against Sweden on May 16, 1991, only a few days before Croatia's independence referendum." Eh? What exactly do you mean by this sentence? Is there a way to simplify it?
  • "Another Croatian team was formed during this time, and went on to play their first modern international fixture against the United States on October 17, 1990 at Maksimir Stadium". -> "Another Croatian team was formed during this time; it played its first international game against the United States on October 17, 1990 at Maksimir Stadium".
  • "Aljoša Asanović was the first goalscorer for the newly established side, as Croatia won the match 2–1." Is this sentence really important?
  • "Croatia would subsequently record another two friendly victories under his guidance[25] before Stanko Poklepović and Vlatko Marković had brief spells in charge." -> "Croatia earned two more victories under him before Stanko Poklepović and Vlatko Marković each briefly headed the team."
  • "until Croatia were declared independent on October 8, 1991" Replace "were" with "was".
  • "at which point the team became the official representative of the Croatian republic." -> "at which the team became..."
  • "The Croatian football federation rejoined the governing bodies of football and went on to organise the first competitive matches for the new national team." Rejoined? So they had joined before? I didn't get that from my reading, but perhaps it is because who the "governing bodies" are is not specified?
  • "Since Croatia were not ranked on their performances prior to independence, they entered the FIFA World Rankings in 125th place" -> "Since the team's performances [or 'scores'] before Croatia's independence were not recorded by the FIFA, they entered the league's World Rankings..."
  • "... recognised Croatia's football federation, which allowed the country to take part in competitive matches." -> "... recognised Croatia's football team and allowed it to compete [or 'play competitive matches']."
  • "at the A. Le Coq Arena in Tallinn, marking their first competitive victory as a distinct side." -> "at the A. Le Coq Arena in Tallinn; this was their first officially-recognized victory since Croatia's independence."
  • "They ultimately finished on top of their qualifying group and earned the FIFA Best Mover of the Year award for their rapid rise in the international rankings. They suffered their first defeat in competitive matches during the same qualifying campaign on June 11, 1995, losing 1–0 in their away fixture to Ukraine." -> "They finished on top of their qualifying group and the FIFA Best Mover of the Year award for their rapid rise in the international rankings. They lost their first game 1-0 in an away game against Ukraine during the same qualifying campaign on June 11, 1995."
  • "Goran Vlaović scored the team's first goal at a major tournament when he netted a late winner against Turkey at the City Ground during Euro 96." It's a first, that's true, but how important is it, really?
  • "The Croats followed their opening victory with a 3–0 win over reigning champions Denmark with Davor Šuker scoring one of the most skillful goals of the tournament; after receiving a long pass, he lobbed the ball into the goal from 12 yards. Croatia were beaten 3–0 by Portugal in their final group fixture, but still advanced out of the group stage to then be knocked out by eventual champions Germany in the quarter finals." -> "After their opening victory against [whatever country they won against], Croatia earned a 3-0 victory against reigning champion Denmark." Also, "one of the most skillful goals of the tournament?" Since the citation doesn't use those words (or anything objectively close), it could be considered POV.
  • "Croatia were beaten 3–0 by Portugal in their final group fixture, but still advanced out of the group stage to then be knocked out by eventual champions Germany in the quarter finals." What does "group" mean? Is it a soccer term?
  • "Miroslav Blažević remained in charge as Croatia commenced qualifications for the 1998 World Cup. They successfully earned a berth at the tournament by defeating Ukraine in a qualifying playoff." Is it really important to note that Blažević was the manager/coach? Also, change that second sentence to "The earned a place in the tournament by defeating Ukraine."
  • "Their first opponents were similar first-timers Jamaica. Mario Stanić scored their first World Cup goal, contributing to the 3–1 victory along with Robert Prosinečki and Davor Šuker at the Stade Félix Bollaert in Lens." -> "Against their first opponent, Jamaica, the team won 3-1 at the Stade Félix Bollaert in Lens." (I don't think their first World Cup goal, while exciting for fans, really belongs in an encyclopedia.)
  • "Croatia narrowly beat Japan in their next fixture to secure a place in the next round, despite losing to Argentina in their final group match." So did they beat Japan first, or did they lose to Argentina first? I'm not familiar with soccer, and the wording is confusing.
  • "Davor Šuker scored his third goal of the tournament as they fended off a challenge from Romania to reach the quarter finals, where they would face former adversaries Germany once again. Although they were initially considered underdogs, Croatia enjoyed a 3–0 victory with goals from Robert Jarni, Goran Vlaović and Davor Šuker respectively after Christian Wörns was sent off." If this occurred after their loss to Argentina/defeat of Japan, you should probably use a transition word. I'm confused about the chronology of the events.
  • "Croatia went on to face the host nation France in the anticipated semi-final encounter." -> "Croatia faced the host nation, France, in the semi-final encounter [game?]." If you're going to use "anticipated", provide a source.
  • "After a goalless first-half, which admittedly frustrated French coach Aimé Jacquet,[35] Croatia took the lead through Davor Šuker once again." -> "After a goalless first half, Croatia took the lead." I don't think Jacquet's feelings are particularly relevant to the article. Also, "once again" doesn't make sense as the Croatians didn't have the lead to begin with ("goalless first half")
  • "However, opposing defender Lilian Thuram secured the host nation a victory with the only international goal of his career as France prevailed 2–1." -> "However, opposing defender Lilian Thuram scored a game-winning goal for France; the final score was 2-1."
  • "The Croatian side won third place by defeating the Netherlands with Davor Šuker capturing the Golden Boot award as the most prolific scorer of the tournament." -> "Croatia won third place by defeating the Netherlands; Davor Šuker won the Golden Boot award for scoring the most goals in the tournament."
  • "This was amongst the best performances for a debut nation in the World Cup,[21] eventually vaulting Croatia to third place in the FIFA World Rankings in January 1999, their highest ranking to date." -> "This was among the best debut performances in the World Cup; as a result, Croatia earned third place in the January 1999 FIFA World Rankings, its highest ranking."
  • "The successful squad of these early years was later dubbed the 'Golden Generation'." -> "For their successes, the team of xxxx year—xxxx year was dubbed the 'Golden Generation'."
  • "FIFA once again awarded Croatia with the Best Mover of the Year award in 1998." -> "Croatia again won the Best Mover of the Year award in 1998."
  • "This was one of the last games played by a team representing "Yugoslavia" as the federal nation was soon abolished and renamed as Serbia and Montenegro." Is this sentence really necessary? This is about the Croatian team, not the Yugoslavian team.
  • "A subsequent loss of form, however, saw Croatia fall to defeat against Ecuador and miss out on qualification to the knockout stages." -> "Due to a loss of form, however, Croatia lost to Ecuador and was unable to qualify for the knockout stages."
  • "Jozić soon stepped down as manager, leading to the appointment of Otto Barić; the first and only manager born outside the Balkans to coach the national team." -> "Jozić soon stepped down as manager; Otto Barić, the national team's only manager born outside the Balkans, replaced him."
  • "A lack of victories saw them narrowly place second in their group as they went on to defeat Slovenia in the playoffs." -> "Lacking victories, they narrowly placed second in their group after defeating Slovenia in the playoffs."
  • "The final tournament saw them fail to advance from their group after losing to England in their final game" -> "They failed to advance from their group in the final tournament after losing to England in their final game."
  • "However, they managed an earlier 2–2 draw against reigning champions France." -> "However, they tied 2-2 against reigning champions France."
  • "Barić followed the pattern of his predecessor and left the management position shortly afterward, stating his criticism as a direct cause." -> "Citing criticism as the cause, Barić, like his predecessor, left the team shortly afterward." Also, you might want to put what kind of criticism he faced.
  • "commanded Croatia to a top place finish in their qualifying group for the 2006 World Cup, again without losing a single match." -> "led Croatia to finish first in their qualifying group for the 2006 World Cup, without losing a match."
  • "Niko Kovač was chosen as team captain during this qualification campaign, a role he kept into the final tournament. Kranjčar faced heavy criticism with the introduction of his son Niko, who was perceived as a biased inclusion by the media." -> "Niko Kovač was chosen as the team captain during this qualification campaign and remained captain into the final tournament. Kranjčar was heavily criticized for recruiting Kovač, as this move was perceived as nepotism." (Note: the sources don't say that the media thought that Kranjčar's move was nepotism; they only quote Kovač as saying that the move was perceived such.)
  • "After narrowly losing to Brazil in their opening game, Croatia failed to overcome Japan in their next group fixture, despite an array of chances including a penalty." -> "Though they narrowly defeated Brazil in their opening game, Croatia lost to Japan in their next group game [or fixture, if that is the correct soccer term] despite many chances [chances for what? to recover, catch up?]."
  • "With their advancement reliant on victory against Australia, Croatia took the lead with one of the earliest goals in their tournament history; a second-minute free kick from Dario Srna. However, the match finished 2–2 with three red cards being issued by referee Graham Poll." -> "Though Croatia led early in a decisive game against Australia, the match ended in a 2-2 tie." Also, there's no citation given for the statement that Poll issued three red cards.
  • "This prompted another exit from the group stage" Does the first sentence mean that Croatia was eliminated from the group stage? If so, just say that.
  • "as Croatia marked an odd first in football history after Josip Šimunić became the only player to receive three yellow cards in a single match. Poll was widely criticized for his lack of control in the match and soon retired from international officiating, relating the incident as a prime cause." -> "Josip Šimunić was issued three yellow cards by Graham Poll, making him the only player to receive three yellow cards in a single match. Poll was criticized for his lack of control in issuing the yellow cards; as a result, he soon retired."
  • "After the exit, the HNS hired former defender Slaven Bilić as national team coach." What's the HNS? It hasn't been explained before, so you should wikilink it.
  • "With a broad range of younger talent available, he immediately improved the team's results, commencing with a 2–0 victory over Italy in an away friendly." -> "With many talented players available, he immediately improved the team; in a game against Italy, the team's first under Bilić, Croatia won 2-0."
  • "With an array of competitive matches scheduled for the Euro 2008 qualifications, Bilić temporarily suspended Dario Srna, Ivica Olić and Boško Balaban from the national squad after the trio were absent from his initial training sessions." This isn't mentioned in the source cited.

Well, not 100% specifically but it is mainly cited in the source: "Three players were brave enough to test him early in his reign when they broke a training camp curfew to visit a nightclub: Bilic booted them all out of his squad and fined them GBP17,000 each."

Oh, I must have missed that. I guess Evelyn Wood's methods don't really work after all. XD

• • "However, the introduction of younger talent such as Eduardo da Silva, Luka Modrić, Vedran Ćorluka and Ivan Rakitić transformed Croatia into one of the youngest international squads." None of the names mentioned are in the sources cited. Might want to reword to something like "By recruiting younger talent, Bilić made Croatia one of the youngest international squads."
  • "Performances ultimately improved under Bilić’s guidance as the team complied positively towards his new management style." -> "The team responded positively to Bilić's coaching, and their performances improved."
  • "This assisted the Croats in their qualifying campaign; remaining unbeaten in their first 11 matches which included an earlier home victory over England." -> "In their qualifying campaign, Croatia was unbeaten in their first eleven matches." I'm not sure how important "This assisted the Croats in their qualifying campaign" is, because readers could probably infer that sentence from the context provided by the sentence just before. Also, "which included an earlier home victory over England" doesn't seem to significant to me.
  • "With qualifications already assured, they traveled to London for their return fixture against the English side, who needed to avoid defeat in order to qualify. Croatia won 3–2 at the Wembley Stadium, denying England their first major tournament since 1994." -> "They won their next game 3-2 against England at the Wembley Stadium; as England needed to win the game to qualify, the tournament was the first since 1994 that they failed to qualify for."
  • "National coach Steve McClaren was immediately dismissed for the failing display, which was England's first competitive defeat at the new venue." You should probably remove this sentence, as it doesn't really have anything to do anything with Croatia's team.
  • "Bilić led the national side as group winners, suffering only a single defeat against Macedonia in the process." -> "Having lost only one game, Croatia won their group [or 'earned first place in their group', whatever the soccer term is]."
  • "Prior to the tournament, Croatia's qualifying topscorer Eduardo da Silva sustained a major compound fracture while playing in the English Premier League." -> "Before the tournament, Croatia's top scorer Eduardo da Silva suffered a compound fracture while playing in the English Premier League."
  • "His injury caused heavy concern within the national team. Association president Vlatko Marković argued that the incident was 'beyond random', as he called for action to be taken against the responsible Martin Taylor." -> "The injury alarmed the team; association president Vlatko Marković claimed the incident was 'beyond random' and called for action to be taken against the responsible Martin Taylor." Also, can you find a source that explains exactly how Martin Taylor caused the injury?

I replaced the reference with a more detailed one found here. I have gone ahead and put in the same warning the article itself put in, distressing images follow as you can see. Domiy (talk) 23:38, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• • "Leading Croatian newspaper Jutarnji List examined Taylor's training sessions and depicted him to show no sorrow over his actions." -> "Croatian newspaper Jutarnji List portrayed Taylor as showing no sorrow over his actions."
  • "A global appeal believed the tackle to be an act of retribution from the English defender, as varied supporters sanctioned Taylor's rough conduct." What does "global appeal" mean? Does it mean that most people around the world believed that Taylor's action was retribution?
  • "Bilić was forced to significantly alter the squad for his final selection, including uncapped players Nikola Kalinić and Nikola Pokrivač." -> "Bilić was forced to significantly alter the squad for his final selection by recruiting uncapped [what does that mean?] players Nikola Kalinić and Nikola Pokrivač."

A 'cap' is an appearance for a national team in an international fixture. Uncapped is also another football term to imply the players have not yet appeared for the national team. I have gone ahead and just worded that more simply and understandably. Domiy (talk) 23:38, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

• • "Croatia entered the tournament with a weakened strike force, arousing concerns after their warm-up fixtures against Scotland and Moldova showed a lack of attacking options." -> "Croatia's weakened strike force and poor offensive performance in warm-up games against Scotland and Moldova drew concerns [specify from whom; the fans? the coaches?]."
  • "Despite such, they finished with maximum group points for the first time in their tournament history after beating co-hosts Austria, Germany and then Poland to advance to the quarter finals." -> "Despite such, they beat Austria, Germany, and Poland and advanced to the quarter finals with maximum group points for the first time in their tournament history."
  • "Niko Kovač remained team captain at what was expected to be his final international tournament, except in the final group fixture when Dario Šimić was temporarily given the captain's armband." Does getting the captain's armband mean that the person becomes the captain? If so, then just say "when Dario Šimić temporarily held the position."
  • "Croatia’s tournament run ended in dramatic events as Turkey advanced on penalties after a controversial refereeing error led to a last minute equaliser from Semih Şentürk, voiding an earlier goal from Ivan Klasnić." -> "Croatia's tournament run ended dramatically: Turkey advanced on penalties after a controversial refereeing error led to Semih Şentürk's issuing a last-minute equaliser that voided one of Ivan Klasnić's earlier goals."
  • "At the competition, Croatia conceded the fewest goals of any team (2), suffered the fewest losses (0) and scored the earliest goal (4th minute in their opening game against Austria), the latter becoming a new European Championship record." -> "At the competition, Croatia conceded the fewest goals of any team (2), lost the fewest games (0), and scored the earliest goal (fourth minute into their opening game against Austria); the last accomplishment became a new European Championship record." Also, you might want to specify which part of the competition Croatia lost 0 times in, since readers unfamiliar with soccer might interpret it to mean the entire European Championship, which would make the sentence untrue (since they lost to Turkey).

Ah yes, good suggestion. I always found trouble with these last few sentences about the game against Turkey. It is really difficult to explain it from an encyclopedic point of view. Turkey had scored after the final whistle should have gone, which made the game controversial. However, as I have mentioned in a separate footnote on not that sentence - "Under the rules of Association football and the official European Championship tournament regulations, a loss inflicted via a penalty shootout does not count as a defeat, but rather a tie which needed a final proccess to determine the team which advances." Domiy (talk) 04:42, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• • "Despite constant speculation of his departure, manager Slaven Bilić renewed his contract to remain in charge for the forthcoming tournament." -> "Despite speculation that he would quit, manager Slaven Bilić renewed his contract to remain in charge for the upcoming tournament."
  • "This marked the first occasion since Miroslav Blažević's managerial tenure that Croatia would enter two consecutive tournaments with the same manager, as all previous coaches were replaced after the failures of the sides they directed." -> "This was the first time since Miroslav Blažević had been manager that Croatia entered two consecutive tournaments with the same manager. (All previous coaches were replaced after their respective teams failed.)"
  • "Croatia were again drawn with England in the qualification stages of the 2010 World Cup, with the rematch fixtures voted on FIFA.com as the most anticipated of the campaign." -> "Croatia was again matched against England in the qualification stages of the 2010 World Cup; the rematch games were voted as the most anticipated of the campaign on FIFA.com."
  • "They went on to open with a home win over Kazakhstan before preparing for their rematch. However, the subsequent fixture against the English side, coached by Fabio Capello, saw them fall to their first ever home competitive defeat since 1994 after Theo Walcott netted a hat-trick and Robert Kovač was sent off." -> "Though they opened with a home win over Kazakhstan, they lost their home game against England; the game was the first competitive home game they lost since 1994."
  • "Croatia have qualified for every World Cup since their debut of the tournament in 1998. Although they were granted entry into FIFA and UEFA in 1992, they were still unable to enter the 1994 tournament as qualifications had already commenced." -> "Croatia have qualified for every World Cup since 1998. Though they were allowed to enter FIFA and UEFA in 1992, they were unable to enter the 1994 as qualifications had already started."
  • "Their first World Cup appearance is the nation's best to date, as they have failed to progress beyond the group stage in both of their following tournaments; placing third in their group on both occasions." -> "Their first World Cup is the nation's best; in both of their following tournaments, they failed to progress beyond the group stage and placed third in their groups."
  • "Croatia's best result in UEFA Championship play also came in their debut, in 1996." -> "Croatia's best result in a UEFA Championship was in their UEFA debut in 1996."
  • "Their failure to qualify for the tournament in 2000 still stands as the only major competition the national team has missed since eligibility." -> "They did not qualify for the 2000 tournament; it is the only major competition the national team missed since their UEFA debut."
  • "Croatia made a bid to co-host the tournament in 2012 alongside Hungary, but the event will instead be co-hosted by Poland and Ukraine." Not really that necessary, since this concerns more the country of Croatia rather than the Croatian team.

Technically, yes. However, if Croatia hosted the event then this largely effects the team itself and has a predominant correlation with the team. For a first, the organization of such a bid comes solely from the domestic governing bodies of football (in this case, it was the Croatian Football Federation). Likewise, it would mean that the Croatian team would not have to go through qualifications for the tournament as the hosts automatically qualify. So, it does have quite a large correlation. Domiy (talk) 08:38, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, okay. Like I said, I don't know much about soccer, so if I make errors about terms or anything in my comments, don't hesitate to correct me.

• • "At various times, distinct Croatian football federations and representative sides were formed separately from the official Yugoslavian organizations." -> "Before Croatia's independence, distinct Croatian football federations and teams were occasionally formed separately from the official Yugoslavian organizations."
  • "Prior to each tournament or group of qualifying fixtures, each national team manager is required to submit a twenty-three man squad to compete, with at least three players occupying each position." -> "Before each tournament or group of qualifying fixtures, each national team manager is required to form a twenty-three-man squad with at least three players in each position."
  • "In the case of an injury or sudden disability to participate, managers are able to withdraw players and replace them." -> "In the case of an injury or sudden inability to participate, managers may replace the ineligible players."
  • "A player who receives two yellow cards during the same tournament or qualifying campaign is suspended for the forthcoming fixture. Longer suspensions may also be issued in the case of violent misconduct or defiance" -> "A player who receives two yellow cards during the same tournament or qualifying campaign is suspended for the next fixture [or game?]; the player may receive a longer suspension in the case of violent misconduct or defiance."

• • "Croatia's current squad was announced on September 29, 2008 by Slaven Bilić to compete against Ukraine and Andorra respectively for the 2010 FIFA World Cup qualifying fixtures of group six." -> "Croatia's current squad, designed to compete against Ukraine and Andorra for the 2010 FIFA World Cup qualifying fixtures, was announced on September 29, 2008 by Slaven Bilić."
  • "Since his appointment as manager, Bilić adopted the 4–4–2 deployment of defenders, midfielders and strikers respectively. A similar 4–2–3–1 deployment has also been used to compensate strategically for the absence of preferred striker Eduardo da Silva. Caps and goals are as of October 15, 2008 and the conclusion of the last match vs. Andorra." -> "Bilić uses a 4-4-2 ratio of defenders, midfielders, and strikers respectively. He used a 4-2-3-1 ratio [of what? the previous sentence mentions three positions, but now there are four numbers] to compensate for the absence of his preferred striker Eduardo da Silva."

• • "From 2006, Robert Jarni held the highest number of appearances for the national team; he played 81 times for Croatia until his retirement in 2002." -> "Until 2006, Robert Jarni had the most appearances on the team; he played eighty-one times until his retirement in 2002."
  • "However, during the 2006 World Cup fixture against Japan, Dario Šimić surpassed this distinction and went on to total 100 national caps since his presence in all major tournaments from 1996. He became the first Croatian player to reach this milestone and subsequently retired in 2008, being treated to a brief media appraisal." -> "However, in 2006, Dario Šimić made his 100th appearance since 1996, making him the first Croatian player to do so." Is it really important to note that he retired in 2008?

• • "Davor Šuker is Croatia's leading goalscorer with 45 international goals in his appearances for the team, a record that saw him recognised as Croatia's "Golden Player" at the UEFA jubilee celebration in 2004." -> "With forty-five goals scored, Davor Šuker is Croatia's highest-scoring player; for this achievement, he was named Croatia's "Golden Player" at the UEFA jubilee celebration in 2004."
  • "Šuker retired in 2002 and his achievement is still to be challenged, with Darijo Srna in a distant second position with 17 goals (as of September 2008). Amongst the closest contenders was Brazilian-born Eduardo da Silva, who opted to play for Croatia and prolifically commenced his international career with 13 goals in 22 senior appearances (as of August 2008), making him amongst the most consistent strikers for Croatia. The record for goals in a single match is held by Mladen Petrić, who scored four times during Croatia's 7–0 home victory over Andorra on October 7, 2006." The first sentence is probably not necessary, as it isn't that significant in the context of the paragraph. Also, the last sentence -> "Mladen Petrić holds the record for most goals in a single match [for just Croatia or in the whole UEFA/FIFA?]; he scored four times during Croatia's victory against Andorra on October 7, 2006."
  • "The national team's joint record for highest-scoring victory comes from two 7–0 results, over Andorra in 2006 and against Australia in a pre-tournament friendly during 1998." -> "The team's victories in which they had the highest scores are a game against Andorra (7-0) and one against Australia (also 7-0)."
  • "Croatia's worst defeat is also a joint record, with two 5–1 defeats against the German national team in the 1940s, as well as a 4–0 loss to Italy during the same period when the Croatian team represented the short-lived Independent State of Croatia. In the modern era, Croatia suffered a 4–1 defeat against Slovakia in a 1994 friendly, a 3–0 defeat to Portugal at Euro 96, a 3–0 loss to Netherlands in a 2008 friendly and a 4–1 loss to England in the qualifying campaign for the 2010 World Cup (both of the latter are Croatia's worst defeat on home soil since 1990).

Did you forget a suggestion here?

No, I'm just putting the newest suggestions in a new section so they're not too hard to find.

• • "Jurica Vranješ is the youngest player to appear for the national team in the modern era, debuting at 19 years, 4 months and 13 days against Egypt on June 13, 1999. Goran Jurić was the oldest player to debut, earning his first cap at 34 years, 1 month and 28 days in a game against Slovenia on April 2, 1997, while Dražen Ladić is the oldest Croatian to compete at international level, playing his farewell match at 37 years, 4 months and 27 days old on May 28, 2000, a friendly against France in Zagreb." Is this really necessary? It doesn't do much to further the layman's understanding of Croatia's soccer team, or even their victories, etc. If there's a separate page for the records etc. of Croatia's team, this could probably be moved there.

Yes, fair enough. I have removed the entire paragraph.

Question - when exactly should digits be used? Can they be used at all to express numerals or should such be written out in words every time? I remember slightly one time somebody suggesting that any number above 9 (nine) should be expressed in digits. Not sure what the actual style is on this, if one even exists. Domiy (talk) 23:13, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, numbers larger than nine can be written out or as numerals; the MoS has a complete list of rules here.

• • "During World War II, the temporarily sanctioned national teams played a total of nineteen friendly matches from 1940 to 1944. Twelve players scored for the team during this period." -> "From 1940 to 1944, the temporary national teams played nineteen friendly matches."
  • "The Croatia team plays most of its home matches at the Maksimir Stadium in Zagreb, where they have maintained a record of only one competitive defeat since 1994." -> "The team plays most of its home matches at the Maksimir Stadium in Zagreb, where they have only lost one competitive game since 1994."
  • "Croatia were undefeated in competitive matches ever until their downfall against England on September 10, 2008 in a World Cup qualifying fixture. With a burden of injuries and a red card in the second-half, the English prevailed 4–1." Not really necessary, since it doesn't have much to do with the stadium. (The fact that they only lost one home game since 1994 is significant, but not this paragraph.)
  • "The stadium takes its name from the surrounding neighbourhood of Maksimir. It is one of the oldest facilities in the country, with the current building regarded as an innovative refurbishment of the original stadium built in 1912." -> "Named for the surrounding neighbourhood of Maksimir, the stadium is one of the oldest facilities in the country; it was built in 1912 and refurbished in 1997."
  • "The stadium has hosted national team fixtures since their competitive home debut against Lithuania; it also hosted the matches of Croatian teams during the World War eras." -> "The stadium has hosted national games since Croatia's competitive home debut against Lithuania; it also hosted the Croatian teams' matches [home matches?] during the World Wars."
  • "Further improvements, designed to increase the current 40,000 seating capacity, are planned, as part of a renovation expected to make Maksimir the most expensive football stadium in the world." -> "The government [or who planned it? I think this is one of those sentences that would flow more smoothly in the active voice] planned more improvements (among which was an increase in seating capacity) that would make Maksimir the most expensive football stadium in the world."
  • "However, UEFA threatened in 2008 to limit the number of fans allowed during future fixtures as a penalty for crowd troubles at the European Championships." -> "However, in 2008, UEFA threatened to limit the number of fans allowed in the stadium during games because of crowd troubles during the European Championships."
  • "Shortly after the final proposition of Maksimir's renovation plans, Zagreb mayor Milan Bandic expressed a refusal to proceed with the construction due to exceeding costs of the operation; until a consensus is reached the refurbishment has once again been postponed." -> "Shortly after the final proposition of Maksimir's renovation plans, Zagreb mayor Milan Bandic refused to proceed with the construction due to high costs; the renovations are still postponed."
  • "In 2006, a large divot in the stadium's turf resulted in an infamous own goal conceded by goalkeeper Paul Robinson." A humorous story, yes (well, maybe not if you're an English fan), but it doesn't really have much weight in the article.

• • "Though violence between the two groups has marked fixtures in the domestic league, Croatia's international performances remain clear of such clashes." -> "Though there has been violence between the two groups during domestic league games, Croatia's international games do not have this problem."
  • "Their fans have nonetheless been heavily sanctioned for their conduct at international performances since the team's formation. The Croatian football federation has been penalized repeatedly for acts of alleged racism by the fans, initially during matches at Euro 2004 which led to a threat by UEFA to expel the Croatian side." -> "However, fans have been reprimanded for their conduct at international games. Because of fans' alleged racist acts, Croatia has been repeatedly penalized and in Euro 2004 was threatened with expulsion by UEFA."
  • "In recent years, the Croats have showed defiance against national security and regulations. During the 2006 World Cup, a Croatian supporter evaded security and made his way onto the field, approaching the Croatian players in excitement. The trespassing fan was arrested after being escorted off the field by Dado Pršo as the whole incident prompted a brief media sensation." -> "In recent years, Croatian fans have defied national security regulations. In the 2006 World Cup, a fan evaded security and approached Croatian players on the field; he was arrested for trespassing." No need to mention that the incident prompted a media sensation, I think.
  • "When Croatia played Italy in a friendly match in Livorno, the small group of Croats responded to the waving of communist flags by forming the shape of a swastika, the symbol of the Nazi regime. The Croatian football federation eventually faced further charges by UEFA for the incident." Who waved communist flags? Italian fans? If so -> "When Croatia played a friendly match against Italy in Livorno, a small group of Croatian fans formed a swastika [with what?] in response to Italians fans' waving communist flags; the UEFA penalized the Croatian football federation for the incident."
  • "Similar events occurred at Euro 2008 as UEFA penalized Croatia for the display of inappropriate banners against Turkey. After an initial investigation by FIFA, another fine was issued to the Croatian football federation for the racial abuse shown towards striker Emile Heskey during the loss to England on September 10, 2008." -> "Similar events occurred at Euro 2008; UEFA penalized Croatia for a display of inappropriate banners against Turkey. FIFA fined the Croatian football federation for racial abuse against striker Emile Heskey after Croatia lost to England on September 10, 2008."
  • "Croatian supporters have additionally been sanctioned for their constant use of flares during major fixtures. Such a tendency also derives from domestic league derby matches, and Croatia's traveling performances have been marked several times with tifo choreography from their followers. The use of such pyrotechnic devices has been strongly prohibited, which has led to numerous confiscations from Croatian supporters. Former defender and current agent Igor Štimac and midfielder Luka Modrić admitted that the use of highly supporting procedures have motivated the Croatian squad prior to fixtures." -> "Croatian fans often use flares in both domestic league derby matches and in international games, a practice which, according to agent Igor Štimac and midfielder Luka Modrić, motivates the Croatian team. For the use of flares in international games, the fans have been reprimanded by UEFA and, as pyrotechnics are strongly prohibited in some cases, have had their devices confiscated."
  • "Ethnic and religious disturbances, often caused by patriotic differences from the war, have also occurred involving Croatian followers." -> "Croatian fans have been involved in clashes, often over ethnic or religious differences."
  • "On June 3, 1990, Yugoslavia played the Netherlands in Zagreb in a warmup fixture prior to the 1990 World Cup. The Croatian crowd expressed disapproval towards the Yugoslavian national anthem and players, subsequently cheering for the Dutch side." -> "On a June 3, 1990 warm-up game for the 1990 World Cup in which Yugoslavia played the Netherlands, the Croatian crowd expressed disapproval towards the Yugoslavian national anthem and players and cheered for the Dutch."
  • "In the same year, Maksimir Stadium hosted a patriotic riot between a large turnout of Croats and Serbs. The two cross-ethnic fans assaulted each other as a signal of the recent hatred instigated by the parliamentary election. Since the breakup of the former Yugoslavian state, there have been increased tensions between affiliated supporters from the Yugoslav region." -> "Since the breakup of the former Yugoslavian state, tension between Croats and Serbs have increased; in 1990, a fight between fans belonging to the two ethnic groups broke out in Maksimir Stadium as a result of feuds over that year's parliamentary election."
  • "During the 2006 World Cup, encounters in Mostar between Bosniaks and Croats led to numerous arrests and severe injuries after the cross-religious nationalists began to attack each other. Further clashes between opposing fans, mostly that of Muslim involvement, occurred at Euro 2008 against Turkey. The two supporters gathered in Vienna shortly before the quarter final fixture, which initially prompted heavy security. After the match, Croatian fans bypassed the police resistance and clashed with the Turkish supporters. The brawl resulted in further arrests on both sides as the perpetrators were escorted away from each other." -> "During the 2006 World Cup, brawls broke out between Bosniaks and Croats in Mostar over religious differences; Croats also clashed with Turkish Muslims during a Euro 2008 game against Turkey. Security was tightened when Croats and Turks again gathered in Vienna shortly before the quarter final game of the tournament; after the match, Croatian fans resisted police and brawled with Turkish fans." You don't really need the sentence "The brawl resulted in further arrests on both sides as the perpetrators were escorted away from each other", because we don't need too many details, just enough to know that Croatians and Turks have clashed.
  • "Football is Croatia's most popular team sport and occupied a large role in the country's independent break-up from Yugoslavia. Nationalism grew heavily during the team's formation in the 1990s when Franjo Tuđman was elected president." What do you mean it occupied a large role in the country's independent break-up? Do you mean that soccer is one of the main reasons Croatia broke away from Yugoslavia?

Yes, as mentioned in the next sentence, it was a significant role while the country was attempting to be considered seperate from Yugoslavia, both officially and unofficially.Domiy (talk) 08:28, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• • "By competing separately in both official and unofficial matches, the national team strengthened the unity of Croatian culture, an accomplishment which the predominant Catholic Church and economy were criticized for failing." Remove the part about the economy and the Catholic Church...I'm pretty sure Catholicism doesn't have too much to do with soccer.

I think both our opinions are equal on this since it doesnt have much to do with soccer terminology etc. The source clearly mentions the same thing about the economy and Catholic church and how the national team outdone them in terms of acheieving unity among people. I actually thought it had a good role in this article and section as the economy and especially the Cathlolic church are very predominant characteristics and powers in Croatia, and football beat them both.Domiy (talk) 08:28, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• • "During this strong political correlation, concerns of fascism being present also aroused. English tabloids The London Evening Standard and The Guardian had described Croatia as "the most disgusting small nation in Europe"." Are the concerns of fascism related to the connection between the soccer team and politics?

The book source sure does make it seem that way, and it actually does say "on the other hand..." which goes on to state the negative impacts of the political connection. I think this assumption can easily be made as there seems to be no other possible reason as to why the English tabloids would publish such bashing on the nation and the team itself. The fact that they were involved in the former presidents mission of acheiving a partiotic and united Croatian state didm't really go well in other countries. I know its completely irrelevant at this time and place, but it is very possible that this political correlation continues to effect the team; they have been unfairly treated and mysterously had things made more difficult for them in recent years. Domiy (talk) 08:28, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• • "Additionally, the national team have been prominent subjects of media association since their formation. The team's fixtures are regularly shown live on Croatia's principal broadcasting station HRT, with Igor Štimac anchoring commentary since his retirement." -> "Since its formation, the team has constantly been the focus of Croatian media attention. The team's games are regularly broadcast live on Croatia's principal station HRT." We don't really need to know who does the commentary, just that the team is focused on a lot by the media.
  • In 2007, they founded a minor charity movement after their affiliated calendar appearances were purchased nationwide. The following year, the Vlado Malešević Foundation revealed the production of a football anthem dedicated to Croatia's national team, with all proceeds also devoted to charity." Did they use the money from the calendar sales for the charity? If so, then -> "In 2007, the team donated proceeds from the sales of their calendars to charity."
  • "Shortly after his appointment, manager Slaven Bilić and his rock band released a hit titled "Vatreno Ludilo" (Fiery Madness) which recalls the team's progress during the 1998 World Cup and champions its present ambitions. The song became a #1 hit in the Croatian music charts and was played widely during the Euro 2008 campaign. Bilić's enthusiasm was ultimately well received in Croatia, inspiring the team's nickname "Bilić Boys"." -> "Shortly after becoming manager, Slaven Bilić and his rock band released a single, "Vatreno Ludilo" (Fiery Madness), which recalled the team's progress during the 1998 World Cup and praised the team's ambitions. The song reached the top position on the Croatian music charts and was widely played during Euro 2008. Because of Bilić's enthusiasm, the team was dubbed "Bilić's Boys"."
  • "Other prominent Croatian bands such as Dino Dvornik, Zaprešić boys, Prljavo kazalište and Baruni have also recorded mantras which have been used to support the national team. Popular hymns have included:
    * Malo nas je al nas ima (We are little, but we are many)
    * Samo je jedno (There is but one thing [in my life])
    * Moj dom je Hrvatska (Croatia is my homeland)
    * Srce Vatreno (Heart of Fire)
    * Hrvatska je prvak svijeta (Croatia are world champions)." -> "Other Croatian bands such as Dino Dvornik, Zaprešić Boys, Prljavo Kazalište and Baruni have recorded songs in support of the team, among which are "Malo Nas Je Al Nas Ima" (We are little, but we are many), "Samo Je Jedno" (There is but one thing [in my life]), "Moj Dom Je Hrvatska" (Croatia is my homeland), "Srce Vatreno" (Heart of Fire), and "Hrvatska Je Prvak Svijeta" (Croatia[ns] are world champions)." I don't know any Croatian, so I capitalized all the words of the song, per WP:Capitalization. Non-important words (like the English words "a", "an", "the", and prepositions) could be un-capitalized.
  • "Since Tuđman’s death in 1999, the relationship between the national team and any political party has declined. Football, and the team itself, remains a proud tradition of patriotism in Croatia. During this strong political correlation, concerns of fascism being present also aroused. English tabloids The London Evening Standard and The Guardian had described Croatia as "the most disgusting small nation in Europe"." -> "When connections between the team and political parties was strong, concerns of fascism arose; English tabloids The London Evening Standard and The Guardian called Croatia as "the most disgusting small nation in Europe". Though the relationship between the team and any political party has waned since Tudman's death in 1999, the team (and football) remain patriotic traditions in Croatia."
  • "Additionally, the squad themselves adopted the song Lijepa li si (how beautiful you are) by influential rock band Thompson, primarily because of its modern similarity to the national anthem." -> "Additionally, the team adopted the song "Lijepa li si" (How beautiful you are) by rock band Thompson as its theme song mainly because of its similarity to the Croatian national anthem."
  • "The correlation with Thompon's music has increased heavily in the buildup to significant fixtures. When Croatia faced Israel in a home qualifier, the music was not played as usual due to political concerns involving the band's criticism from Jewish organisations. At the conclusion of the match, the squad and management team voiced their opinions and opposed against Thompson's alleged controversy." -> "Recently, many of Thompson's songs have been played during significant games; however, when Croatia faced Israel in a home qualifying game, Thompson songs were not played due to Jewish organisations' criticism of the band."
  • "During Croatia's final qualifying victory against England at Wembley Stadium, British performer Tony Henry mispronounced the closing lyrics of the Croatian anthem. Henry's fear of criticism was later retracted as the players credited his error as a relieving factor behind their victory." -> "During Croatia's final qualifying victory against England at Wembley Stadium, British performer Tony Henry mispronounced the closing lyrics of the Croatian anthem. He feared criticism, but was relieved when the team credited his error as factor in their victory."

Once again, I won't be here on Sunday, so please excuse me if I cannot reply to your comments right away.

Thanks again for your efforts. I hope its not too much trouble, but I recently added a new section of info and compiled another bit of content which I plan to include into the article. If you have time, please review the "Nicknames and Pronunciation" section and also, the following content:

The Croatian team is a fully licensed member of both FIFA and UEFA; these two governing confederations hold control over their associated teams in matters of discipline and scrutiny. FIFA hold jurisdiction over the global football played by Croatia, which is mainly their participation in the traditional FIFA World Cup. UEFA is responsible for governance of Croatia in European competitions, such as the European Championships. These two confederations therefore hold the most power over the national team, a role which has been recently practiced to full extent after UEFA threatened Croatia with expulsion and FIFA fined Croatia over crowd troubles.

Well, I couldn't find this paragraph on the page anywhere, but I'll still review it just in case.

"The Croatian team is a fully licensed member of both FIFA and UEFA; these two governing confederations hold control over their associated teams in matters of discipline and scrutiny. FIFA hold jurisdiction over the global football played by Croatia, which is mainly their participation in the traditional FIFA World Cup. UEFA is responsible for governance of Croatia in European competitions, such as the European Championships." -> "The Croataian team is a fully licensed member of FIFA and UEFA; these two confederations govern their associated teams in discipline and scrutiny. FIFA governs Croatia's international games, mainly in the World Cup. UEFA governs Croatia in European competitions like the European Championships."

" These two confederations therefore hold the most power over the national team, a role which has been recently practiced to full extent after UEFA threatened Croatia with expulsion and FIFA fined Croatia over crowd troubles." -> This sentence isn't really necessary, since from the previous sentences, the reader can already figure out that UEFA and FIFA hold the most power over the national team.

The subsequent role of authority belongs to the Croatian football federation, which abidingly organises the team’s participation in major competitions and scheduled matches. The federation is currently led by Vlatko Markovic, who remains in charge of representing the national team in formal matters of appeal and other conference events. The Croatian football federation, abbreviated as HNS, has the greatest domestic influence over the team; they maintain the role of player registration and the selection of a succeeding team coach and associated staff. In addition, the HNS becomes one of the primary sources of salary funds for the players.

"The subsequent role of authority belongs to the Croatian football federation, which abidingly organises the team’s participation in major competitions and scheduled matches." -> "The team is also under the authority of the Croatian football federation, which itself abides by the rules of the FIFA and UEFA."

"The federation is currently led by Vlatko Markovic, who remains in charge of representing the national team in formal matters of appeal and other conference events." -> "The federation is led by Vlatko Markovic, who represents the team in formal appeals and conferences."

"The Croatian football federation, abbreviated as HNS, has the greatest domestic influence over the team; they maintain the role of player registration and the selection of a succeeding team coach and associated staff. In addition, the HNS becomes one of the primary sources of salary funds for the players." -> "The federation (abbreviated HNS) has the greatest immediate influence on the team; it governs player registration and selects the team coaching staff. In addition, the HNS is the primary source of the players' salaries."

Currently assigned head coach Slaven Bilic holds the next-highest authority over the team His role is to select, organise and stipulate the participating players, as well as enforcing team policies. The head coach must also choose a team captain; by general processes, this role holds slightly more power than the ordinary players as the captain must organise the team while on the playing field.

"Currently assigned head coach Slaven Bilic holds the next-highest authority over the team His role is to select, organise and stipulate the participating players, as well as enforcing team policies." -> "Head coach Slaven Bilic holds the next-highest authority over the team; he selects and organises the players and determines the terms of their contracts as well as enforcing team policies."

"The head coach must also choose a team captain; by general processes, this role holds slightly more power than the ordinary players as the captain must organise the team while on the playing field." -> "Finally, the head coach also chooses the team captain, who organises the team during games."

Domiy (talk) 11:09, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH - this is more than I expected, and I am really grateful for your efforts here. Your prose suggestions are much better, and I have gone in fixed them up into the article. Any more suggestions are appreciated as I too am stuck on improvements, as I said before, English is my second language. Domiy (talk) 03:06, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]