Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 13

This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on November 13, 2024.

• Zhuhui Stadium → Zhuhai Stadium  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Misspelled Zhuhai. No usage exept for mirror sites, IP detect sites, and map data sites that probably grabbed data from Wikipedia. WhatLinksHere cleaned.

Zhuhui is another place in China. The first version said it's in Zhuhui, Hengyang, Hunan, China, while coordinates pointed to Zhuhai. It said it opened in 1998 which matches Zhuhai stadium ("建成于1998年10月", built in October 1998). I searched for Zhuhui stadium (google:朱晖体育馆) with no results.

   — 魔琴 (Zauber Violino) [ talk contribs ] 22:54, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Baby gaetz → Matt Gaetz  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Nickname not mentioned in the article. Xeroctic (talk) 22:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete No idea why this was created in the first place. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:41, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Agreed. Kcmastrpc (talk) 00:39, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I think this is a pun, relating to the baby-gate accusations against Gaetz, concerning underage prostitution -- 65.92.246.77 (talk) 05:54, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Nah, it's a nickname for Gaetz because his father was also a state politician. This isn't a vote, this is just me chiming in with an explanation. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 10:07, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Now that's something I've forgotten with all the hubbub he's generated over the years. In that case, the redirect should be Baby Gaetz and tagged as {{R from nickname}}. It could be added to the infobox or early career, with several sold RSes, like SCMP[1], BBC[2], etc -- with this one being a {{R from avoided double redirect|Baby Gaetz}} -- 65.92.246.77 (talk) 00:10, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Draft:British politician sex → We Didn't Start the Fire#1963  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Phrase is not mentioned in target article. This appears to have initially been created as a redirect in draftspace, which was then moved to draftspace at British politician sex, which now points to Profumo affair#In popular culture. 2A0E:1D47:9085:D200:110E:9901:345E:297F (talk) 21:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - unnecessary cross-namespace redirect. The mainspace redirect was retargeted after a previous RfD after the draft previously at this title was moved to mainspace and then WP:BLAR'd, and as such the draftspace redirect is no longer useful. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 21:20, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• SI → International System of Units  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

This has a crazy number of potential meanings to point to any specific one. I propose retargeting this to the disambiguation page, Si, which lists dozens of possible meanings. BD2412 T 21:08, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SI makes sense as a redirect to International System of Units because that's the abbreviation all schoolchildren learn. And if I type "Si" I get the disambiguation page, which also makes sense. No need to change a thing. Dondervogel 2 (talk) 22:20, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Re: "that's the abbreviation all schoolchildren learn". In what country? Certainly not in the United States. Here schoolchildren probably think Sports Illustrated. BD2412 T 00:40, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should I have said "90 % of all schoolchildren"? Try googling "what does the abbreviation SI stand for?" Dondervogel 2 (talk) 07:58, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Dondervogel 2. My impression is that SI is most commonly used to refer to the International System of Units, and is the most common thing for a person to write when they want to refer to the International System of Units. Jc3s5h (talk) 23:02, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep WP:SMALLDETAILS matter. International System of Units is by far the primary topic for SI (with both letters capitalized). Looking at the disamb page, there is very few other articles that is a plausible referee because there are either too ambiguous, or is spelled with "Si". There is a hatnote if the target was not what the reader intended. Ca ^{talk to me!} 13:20, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep overwhelmingly the primary meaning. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:28, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Scientific units are always gonna be more relevant than some random sports magazine. TeapotsOfDoom (talk) 18:31, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. No reader expects simply typing extremely vague search term "SI" to land them on a sports magazine or a random Indian ministry. No one calls kg, m, s, etc by their full name International System of Units, but by its acronym SI. Ca ^{talk to me!} 00:45, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Diya Chitale → Table tennis in India  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

No point in this redirect, there is no much coverage about her in this page. just mentioned in couple of tables. should be deleted until an actual article is made. Sports2021 (talk) 20:51, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Mineraft controversies → Minecraft#Controversies  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Typo for the main article is plausible. Typo for a subtopic is ehhh. TeapotsOfDoom (talk) 20:38, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - implausible typo; stats suggest this isn't in use at all. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 21:21, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per above --Lenticel ^(talk) 07:36, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Not a squid → Squidward Tentacles  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Seriously? TeapotsOfDoom (talk) 20:32, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - not a plausible redirect. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 22:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as confusing --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Ambiguous ... can literally refer to anything other than Squid. Steel1943 (talk) 15:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Herobrain → Herobrine  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

This is a bit too much off to be an accident. Intentional misspelling or a bad pun, I don't really see this one getting much mileage.
You Were Supposed to Be The Hero, Bryan! TeapotsOfDoom (talk) 20:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep Plausible mondegreen Ca ^{talk to me!} 13:21, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Adult contemporary progressive death metal → Colors (Between the Buried and Me album)  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

I don't think this term is unambiguously affiliated with this album. For instance, the first result on Google (for me) was for a band different than that of this album's. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:41, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I got that, too (I'm assuming from last.fm), but, Between the Buried and Me literally coined the term. Therefore, it makes better sense to redirect to their album. If, and only if, more bands start to identify with this term, and major outlets such as Rolling Stone pick up on it and define it, could we then start an article for this term. Moline1 (talk) 19:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Purple francis → Left 4 Dead (franchise)#Purple Francis  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Purple Francis → Left 4 Dead (franchise)#Purple Francis  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

WTF? That's a literal joke character created by the fandom. This redirect needs to be put in the bin. TeapotsOfDoom (talk) 18:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

i can't believe i'm saying this, but restore. with mild prejudice against afd, if also with no prejudice against draftifying or userifying. this was the last diff before what seems to be a bold blar, and unless my eyes are bamboozling me, those look a lot like reliable sources. no opinion on restoring his section in the l4d article, which was similarly boldly removed in july cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 19:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Restore and send to AFD as contested BLAR per cogsan. how the hell did vice, msn, and pc gamer report on this??? like actually?? mwwv ^converse∫_edits 14:09, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  there are reliable enough sources on grandpa's bed. as in the one from stardew valley. really, anything goes at this point cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 16:47, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Restore and optionally send to AFD if desired. I guess the reporters got really bored that day but somehow sources exist. Schützenpanzer (Talk) 21:46, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Media coverage of Donald Trump → Presidency of Donald Trump#Relationship with the news media  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Public image of Donald Trump looks like a better target. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 17:07, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suppport Provides a more general overview than either of his presidencies. Ca ^{talk to me!} 13:23, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• List of presidential trips made by Donald Trump (2026) → Donald Trump  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

WP:TOOSOON, no mention / relevant information at the target, making this a misleading redirect. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:55, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete until the WP:CRYSTALs fully form. We don't need to mislead readers into thinking we have this info when we don't. Regards, SONIC678 21:41, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per WP:CRYSTAL --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:57, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per WP:CRYSTAL. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 14:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Criticism of George Bush → Public image of George W. Bush  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

This could refer to both presidents. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 16:50, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - we don't have a separate article on public image for the senior Bush; Public image of George H. W. Bush is a subsection redirect to his bio. We could add a hatnote to the target. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 21:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete easily could refer to "Read my lips, no new taxes" promise being broken by H.W., or him being Mr. Invisible. -- 65.92.246.77 (talk) 05:56, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Criticism of Donald Trump → Public image of Donald Trump  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Retarget to Cat:Criticism of Donald Trump as {{R to category namespace}}. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 16:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Ryan Girdusky → One America News Network  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Not explained in target article. -- Beland (talk) 16:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• James J. Finn → Lindbergh kidnapping  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Not mentioned in the target article. Dennis C. Abrams (talk) 15:57, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add a mention and keep (I will try to do this). Searching his name in books he seems to have been a figure involved in this case. PARAKANYAA (talk) 08:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Cricoarytenoid → Cricoarytenoid muscle  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

There is also Cricoarytenoid joint and Cricoarytenoid ligament. This could be a set index like Arytenoid. 1234qwer1234qwer4 09:57, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 14:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Chingisid → Borjigin#Genghisids  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Which articles should these redirects point to? The current situation is inconsistent and confusing.

1. Chingisid redirects to Borjigin#Genghisids (section does not exist anymore)
2. Chingissid redirects to Borjigin#Genghisids (section does not exist anymore)
3. Chinggisid redirects to Borjigin#Genghisids (section does not exist anymore)
4. Chinggisids redirects to Borjigin#Genghisids (section does not exist anymore)
5. Chingissids does not exist yet.
6. Chinggissids does not exist yet.
7. Genghisids redirects to Borjigin#Genghisids (section does not exist anymore)
8. Genghisid redirects to Descent from Genghis Khan
9. Chingizid redirects to Descent from Genghis Khan
10. Family tree of Genghis Khan redirects to Descent from Genghis Khan.
11. Jochid redirects to Jochi, but Jochids redirects to Descent from Genghis Khan. (Jochid Ulus redirects to Golden Horde, that seems fine).

Personally, I am in favour of redirecting them all to Descent from Genghis Khan, as a Chingis(s)id / Ghenghisid is, strictly speaking, a descendant from Genghis Khan, not an earlier Borjigin, while Genghis Khan himself was obviously not a Chingis(s)id / Ghenghisid, but a Borjigin only. Redirecting to a section always risks link rot anyway, as section titles often change or they are rearranged, while Descent from Genghis Khan as a whole will presumably always be dedicated to this very subject. Thoughts? NLeeuw (talk) 12:43, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PS: Not sure if I formatted this RfD correctly; I rarely do these. Do I need to tag all redirects in question? NLeeuw (talk) 12:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Section redirects are useful in taking the reader straight to the relevent part of a large article. A link from Genghisids to Borjigin can confuse the reader, since the Borjigin article does mention Genghisids in the lead. Link rot can be reduced by linking to an anchor rather than a section name, e.g. {{anchor|Genghisids}}. An editor is likely to preserve the anchor. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:39, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nederlandse Leeuw if you meant to nominate all of them, then no. if you want to nominate multiple redirects at once, you could try this mass xfd tool. then again, it doesn't matter much, since anyone could just do whatever is deemed necessary with them after this is closed (except deleting, that's an admin thing) cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 16:55, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• See this version of the Chingisid article. The broadest meaning of the term is "to do with Ghengis Khan", and could mean "descended from Ghengis" but could have various other meanings depending on context. Possibly the solution would be to pick the spelling used in the largest number of articles and make it a disambiguation page pointing to Descent from Genghis Khan, Yassa, Khanate and Golden Horde. Point the other spellings to the disambiguation page. Links can then be cleaned up to point to the page that discusses the intended meaning. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:39, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  A disamb page might indeed be the best solution here. What do others think? NLeeuw (talk) 14:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I've been intending to create a new article on the Chinggisid dynasty for some time. If others are amenable, I can get started in the next couple of days. The first nine redirects can then target that. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:38, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pages that refer to Chinggisid dynasty should link to it directly. But the disambiguation page would also list Descent from Genghis Khan, the Chingisid principle (Yassa golden lineage), Chingisid states (Khanates), Chingisid people (e.g. Golden Horde) and Chingizid (moth). The various forms of Chingisid should redirect to the disambiguation page. A page that included a link to, e.g., Chingizid would be flagged for clarification. Aymatth2 (talk) 18:10, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Of course, if the dynasty is the dominant meaning of the term (I don't think it is, may be wrong), the forms of Chingisid would redirect to Chinggisid dynasty, which would have a hatnote {{Otheruses|Chinggisid (disambiguation)}}, and Chinggisid (disambiguation) would list the other meanings. We need a list of all pages that use some variant of the word, with or without a link, showing what they mean by it. Aymatth2 (talk) 18:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      I don't think "Chingisid dynasty" as such makes much sense. There are competing definitions of what a "dynasty" even is; a series of hereditary monarchs who each sat on the throne, excluding all their relatives who didn't? The entire family of that series of hereditary monarchs? The "state" or "empire" governed by them? Etc. See the discussions about Rurikid dynasty and category:Rurik dynasty, where we ended up renaming them to just Rurikids and Category:Rurikids. Similarly, see the recent scholarly work of Raffensperger & Ostrowski 2023, The Ruling Families of Rus, where the whole concept of a dynasty is heavily criticised as an outdated and ambigious concept that erases lots of people from history who didn't sit on the throne, despite wielding significant political or otherwise power and influence for sometimes decades. (Note: they also discuss 'house', 'clan' and 'family', and end up choosing 'family', as can be seen in the title.) If there is to be a new article, separate from the existing ones on Borjigin and Descent from Genghis Khan, I strongly recommend that the title be Chingisids, and to omit a word like 'dynasty'. NLeeuw (talk) 20:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      PS: But really, I think such an article might easily become a WP:REDUNDANTFORK of the existing articles, so let's make sure it would have added value separate from what we've already got, or integrate such contents into our existing articles. My question here is just to make consistent redirects. NLeeuw (talk) 20:54, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      I strongly disagree. The term "Chinggisids" has strong independent notability as distinct from the Borjigin. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:24, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      I may start an Index of articles related to Ghengis Khan, including redirects. I suspect there is a fair amount of forking. Aymatth2 (talk) 22:27, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Crimean Giray dynasty was referred to as the "Genghisids". Genghisid/Chinggisid literally means Borjigin dynasty. Descent from Genghis Khan is irrelevant in this context, and I don't even know why this article exists. Should be merged. "Chingisid dynasty" doesn't exist. Only two words should be redirected Chinggisids and Genghisids. Beshogur (talk) 21:14, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps, but similarly, lots of people were referred to, or referred to themselves, as "Romans", and yet histiographical convention names a great number of them "Byzantines", for example. We could theoretically always merge everything, but we'll soon end up with articles that are WP:TOOLONG (e.g. List of Roman emperors should imo have been split, because it's way too long to navigate comfortably, and we already had List of Byzantine emperors.) Although I made a plea for not splitting off a new articles named Chingisids above if there was no obvious need, I think we shouldn't underestimate the value of splitting up articles either. NLeeuw (talk) 04:01, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that Descent from Genghis Khan is a very odd article that should probably be redirected, but Chinggisid is distinct from the wider Borjigin term primarily because it was descent from Genghis, not general membership of the Borjigin, that legitimised rule in the post-Mongol world. See discussion in e.g. May 2017. While the Borjigin altan urugh (golden family) included the descendants of Genghis's brothers and of his children by concubines such as Kolgen, they were not eligible for rulership because they were not Chinggisid. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:24, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I think I see a solution. I will expand Chinggisids until it is reasonably complete; Borjigin needs also a little bit of expansion and a lot of rewriting to match current scholarship (many of its sources are half a century old and vastly out of date).

Meanwhile, Descent from Genghis Khan should be renamed and refocused onto the matter of genetic descent from Genghis—i.e. the numerous papers that have been released after the "16 million descendants" article from 2003.

All redirects seem fairly self-explanatory then, except for Jochid/Jochids which should probably redirect to Golden Horde, and Family tree of Genghis Khan which would probably work best as a redirect to Chinggisids, if I can figure out how the family tree thing works. Thanks for bringing matter up, NLeeuw. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good! Yes, I suppose renaming Descent from Genghis Khan to Genetic descent from Genghis Khan or something works better. Chinggisids can then fully focus on the reigning families of the late Middle Ages descended from Genghis or married into that family. NLeeuw (talk) 16:09, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PS: I would recommend doing a search query in reliable sources to check for the WP:COMMONNAME. We better prevent endless disputes about how to spel "Chingisids" (I don't care which, but we need to pick one). NLeeuw (talk) 16:13, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The current spelling (Chinggisids) is favoured in most reliable sources that I can see, including all cited so far in the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:48, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ngrams appears to overwhelmingly agree. I'm a bit surprised; I'm not that familiar with the double g spelling. Halperin 1987, which I use a lot for reference, has single g, single s, and some of his sources are single g, double s, but apparently they are in the minority. Ngrams shows the double g, single s spelling quickly gaining ground from the 1990s onwards. Seems like you've chosen the right title, so I guess that settles it. NLeeuw (talk) 22:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]