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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Janet Devlin (singer)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to List of The X Factor finalists (UK series 8)#Janet Devlin. The consensus is that this shouild redirect to the reality program article until such time if(when) she becomes notable in her own right PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 00:23, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Janet Devlin (singer)

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Janet Devlin (singer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • Stats)
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Devlin was a contestant on last year's UK X-Factor series. Janet Devlin is a redirect to the contestants page. Like the other contestants', she has not long been out of the post-series tour and has done nothing of great note in her own right. The new article is almost entirely about her activities with X-factor, apart from a few subsequent 'tweets' an announcement she is due to start recording. It is normal practise to redirect to the reality TV series until contestants become independently notable. Sionk (talk) 22:24, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for your consideration on the Article. I would appreciate if we could work together so that the article satisfies your concerns. The Article tries to point out that there has been quite considerable moments of worthy notability. There have been a number of newspaper, magazine, television & radio recognition on the said artist. The artist has received an Honorary Civil Award from Omagh County Council for example which has been reliably sourced. I would also appreciate if you could point out where the 'tweets' are. I am new to the process and would like to reiterate that I appreciate your help and feedback. Kind regards, Michelle Gortinsheep (talk) 23:23, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Believe me, I hope she does well in the future. But with only vague promises of an album she clearly hasn't made her mark outside of X-factor yet. The Music News source confirms she's about to start recording some tracks. This seems to be the only post-X factor news coverage. See WP:NMUSIC for examples of what might make her notable in the future, for example releasing a successful track. I've amended the 'tweet' comment, I thought one of the sources quoted her tweets. Sionk (talk) 00:08, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for your considered and swift response. I would put forward that the Artist has made her mark outside of X Factor, I can point you to reliable sources to this fact. If you review the article, a number of the sources are post X Factor and can provide further evidence of this fact. I appreciate that new Articles must be thoroughly scrutinised and totally respect your input and opinion. As I said, I am quite new to the process and would really appreciate any advice and help that you could give. I would still put forward that the Artist deserves a atand alone article. Rest assured I fully take on board your points. Thank you so much for your time and kind consideration. Kind regards, Michelle Gortinsheep (talk) 01:59, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:22, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Thank you for your considered and informative response. I would put forward that the Artist has been notable outside of X Factor. For Example, the Artist is the recipient of an Honorary Award at a Civic Reception from Omagh Council in Northern Ireland. Leaving aside the millions of YouTube Hits (Pre & During X Factor) which may or may not constitute Notability, the Artist has been subject to significant media coverage post X Factor as set out in WP:NMUSIC Part 1 Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable and are independent from the musician or ensemble itself. I would suggest that the Artist satisfies this test . For example, the media coverage post X Factor: The Artist's Gigs post X Factor and recording her own original songs in studio with Eliot Kennedy & his team. In addition, the Artist was offered a Recording Contract within minutes of leaving the show; which is a X Factor record and notable of itself. I fully take on board that the Artist has not yet had a Single or Album in any chart yet....but would suggest that this is not far from happening. If you look at the Preamble to WP:NMUSIC It does state... Please note that the failure to meet any of these criteria does not mean an article must be deleted I hope I have gone some way to explain and hopefully persuade that the Artist is deserving and notable enough to have her own stand alone Artice. I shall now leave it in your capable hands and hope you can agree with what I have tried to get across. Should the consensus reach a decision that the Article be Redirected/Deleted, All I would ask is that the Artice be returned to my Sandbox so that I could maintain it until it is ready for mainspace....as the Editors see fit, should that arise. Finally, I would just like to say thank you very much for your time and expertise. It is very much appreciated.... Kind regards, Michelle Gortinsheep (talk) 00:28, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to List of The X Factor finalists (UK series 8)#Janet Devlin, as she currently has no independent notability outside of the television show she appeared on. — sparklism hey! 13:42, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:08, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: this article has lots of verifiable references. It may be appropriate to delete it later, but I think Wikipedia benefits from it in its current form. Squareanimal (talk) 10:22, 26 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Squareanimal (talk • contribs) 10:18, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Just wanted to make a comment relating to articles about The X Factor contestants. The subjects of these articles may appear notable, but until they have a music release (not part of The X Factor contestants) that charts somewhere, then the list entries at List of The X Factor finalists (UK series 8) are sufficient. This is what has always happened in the past, with people like Stacey Solomon and Cher Lloyd, and is what should continue to happen. Otherwise we would have articles for every contestant - they always receive media coverage because of the show they were on. Even Frankie Cocozza is more deserving of an article than Janet Devlin because he's appeared in another reality TV series. –anemoneprojectors– 09:36, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Then this should be part of the Wikipedia:Notability (music)#Criteria for musicians and ensembles so that this does not appear as a subjective decision only related to X Factor contestants. And, then, it would have to written as part of the guidelines so that it does not single out X Factor but instead would capture every contestant on every music show including American Idol, which then would mean that would subject every individual person's article on Wikipedia from these shows to the same criteria. If we are not willing to have this as part of the guidelines, then we need to allow this page and other pages like it to stand so long as they meet the criteria at Wikipedia:Notability (music)#Criteria for musicians and ensembles. It becomes very confusing and creates an argument atmosphere to not adhere to written notability guidelines. -- NewzealanderA (talk) 15:28, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Notability is the primary guide for what should and should not be included in Wikipedia. Because Devlin has attracted significant attention from the media because of her 3-minute appearances on X-Factor, she is included on Wikipedia, at List of The X Factor finalists (UK series 8)#Janet Devlin. Hence the arguments here to 'redirect'. Sionk (talk) 10:40, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If Wikipedia:Notability were the primary guide, then this discussion would not be happening. What is happening is that there is another level of unwritten notability being applied to these contestants based on what appears to be, at this point, precedent -- the examples stated above being Stacey Solomon and Cher Lloyd -- and interested editors that prevents these people from having their own article until a consensus threshold is met. Having dropped into this discussion because I happened to have been the last reviewer/editor for Talk:Misha_Bryan_(singer) which is in nearly the same situation, this is extremely frustrating. How can we avoid arguments like this in the future? Can there be a post on Wikipedia:WikiProject_The_X_Factor that outlines the consensus approach or the examples of others who have their own page? Something like that could be used as a reference going forward so that it becomes presented as more of the community decision than having it appear that it's just an opinion of one or two interested editors. -- NewzealanderA (talk) 14:41, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a general discussion about X-Factor or WP:N. Please confine your comments to the subject at hand. Sionk (talk) 15:16, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.